Funny I find this conversation today. I have been looking at Springbar "Compact 2" and the Kodiak "8.5x6 VT" for the past few days.
I am tired of using nylon dome tents for a season and usually throwing them away after because they are worn out or the zippers gave in or...etc.
I read a lot of comparisons about the small canvas tents, and I am not sure there is a clear winner. The biggest advantage for the springbar is the weight. At least as advertised weight goes. The Springbar weighs in at 22lbs, the Kodiak at 30.5lbs, so 8.5lbs difference. Most of that weight difference lies in aluminum vs. steel tent poles and stakes.
Here are some differences I see in general:
Floor:
Kodiak: Sewn and welded-in floor that is waterproof
Springbar: Sewn-in lighter weight floor, not welded, not water proof
I'd be a little worried about the thinner floor on the Springbar and buy the additional ground cloth.
Height:
Springbar: 40" minimum internal height
Kodiak: 48".
That is a bigger deal for me, as I am a little over 6' and the extra 8" in height are meaningful.
Sidewalls:
The sidewalls (long side) on the Kodiak seem a little steeper, which would also provide a little more internal space, but I just looked at photos, and my perception may just be an optical illusion.
Windows/Doors:
Kodiak has two side windows and two doors. It is nice not having to climb over your camping buddy to get to the door.
Springbar has one door and no side windows.
Back to the weight, I think the added ground cloth I would buy, if I bought the Springbar, might add about a pound, whereas I could exchange the steel tent stakes, that come with the Kodiak, for aluminum ones, saving about a pound. With a little additional custom tuning, the weight difference between the two tents likely becomes marginal. I don't portage much at all, and if I do it is generally very short distances. I can handle the effective weight difference of the Kodiak. For folks that portage a lot and longer distances that may be different.
I have not seen a Springbar tent in action, but from what I can tell, they are quality tents. I have seen the Kodiak tents in action. A friend of mine has two of the Kodiak 10x10 cabin tents. They are almost more cabin then they are tent. Very sturdy and well made.
Now that I wrote all this down, I think I might have just talked myself into that Kodiak... [h=1][/h]
I have a Springbar Compaq 2 and a Kodiak Flexbow 8 x 10. The Sprinbar Compact 2 weighs only 22 lbs with stakes and poles. I recommend keeping the stakes that come with the tent as they're the wedge type that are imo better than the rod type and don't weigh all that much.
Neither tent is waterproof near the edge of the tent walls where they connect to the floor. Only the floor is waterproof. The Kodiak uses a
13.5 oz vinyl. Polyester reinforced material whereas the Sprinbar uses a 9 oz vinyl-laminated polyester, (CPAI-84 fire-retardant, antibacterial, UV inhibitor)
The only method I know of to waterproof the tent floor where it connects to the tent walls is to use a silicon spray.
How the floor is attached is different from the Kodiak as the Springbar additionally installs a rope with metal ground loops around the floors perimeter. Which is preferred by many over the Kodiak, as it creates a better ground attachment preventing the floor from ripping when staked down. All that's securing the Kodiak to the ground is the sewn in plastic floor and sewn in fabric stake loops. The floor of the Kodiak uses a thicker poly but I'm uncertain if it's any stronger than the Springbar's floor material. I believe both floor materials have approx. the same strength.
The only time the Kodiak's floor ripped was because the Kodiak was left up an entire summer in an area with poor drainage that sometimes became wet with several inches of water. The ground water to an extent was siphoned into the tent walls, one corner of the canvas edge of tent floor ripped where the canvas tent material became water logged over an extended length of time. Also I never treated the tent with silicon which I probably should have done to prevent the tent walls near the floor from becoming saturated with water. I took the tent to a canvas repair business and they sewed in some more canvas material in the area of ripped canvas.
Imo both brands are good tents, however there slight differences in construction and design. Springbar is made in the USA whereas the Kodiak's are manufactured to Kodiak's specs and imported.
Springbar tents:
8.5 oz Shelter Duck, double-fill construction, 100% cotton with Sunforger marine-finish boat shrunk treatment
Roof- 10.1 oz Army Duck, double-fill construction, 100% cotton with Sunforger marine-finish boat shrunk treatment
Windows- Polyester no-see-um mesh, CPAI fire-retardant
Zippers- YKK #10RC and #8CF nylon coils with nickel-plated sliders
Springbar Compact 2
- Weight: 22 lbs
- Tent Bag: 10 in x 30 in
- Pole Bag: 8 in x 36 in
- Floor: 6 ft x 8 ft 6 in
- Floor Area: 51 sq ft
- Sleeping Capacity: 2 adults
- Minimum Height (Inside): 40 in
- Maximum Height (Outside): 48 in
- Number of Doors: 2
- Number of Windows: None
Springbar Outfitter 3
- Weight: 34 lbs
- Tent Bag: 12 in x 29 in
- Pole Bag: 8 in x 35 in
- Floor: 7 ft x 8 ft
- Floor Area: 56 sq ft
- Sleeping Capacity: 2 adults or 1 adult with extra gear
- Minimum Height (Inside): 67 in
- Maximum Height (Outside): 68 in
- Number of Doors: 1
- Number of Windows: 1 half-height back window
Back Window: Top- 20 1/4" Height- 34" Bottom- 25 3/4"
8.5 x 6 ft. Flex-Bow VX Tent
Pack Weight: 30.5 lbs. (Tent 15.5, poles 10.5, stakes 4.5 lbs.).
Pack Size: Tent-- Length 30 in., Diameter 10 in.
Capacity: 2-person (8.5x6 ft. floor, 4 ft. ceiling height).
Ceiling Material: 10 oz Hydra-shield™ canvas.
Wall Material: 8.5 oz Hydra-Shield™ canvas.
Floor Material: 13.5 oz vinyl. Polyester reinforced.
Frame: 1-inch, galvanized, steel tubing.
Flex-Bow Rods: 7mm diam., solid, spring steel.
All-season: Use year-round, but not designed for extreme winter mountaineering or heavy snow accumulations
I found this to be interesting, there is a Flex-bow camouflage version: http://www.longwayleisure.com.au/pro...086-camouflage
Springbar metal floor/ground loops. A piece of rope is also sewn into the edge. The Kodiak on the other hand sews directly to the plastic floor material using fabric ground loops, which is iirc a nylon or nylon re-enforced fabric. [TABLE="class: wsite-multicol-table"]
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You think you could fit a Kni-co Trekker stove https://www.kni-co.com/index.php?rou...tegory&path=70 (or similar) in one of the compacts, Kodiak or Springbar? I don't think either come with a stove jack, but I have seen jacks for retrofitting canvas tents. At 8.5 x 6, floor space would become small but OK for two I would think.
Ideally, there was a canvas tent / wood stove combination at no more than 50lbs total weight that sleeps 3 . Maybe the Springbar Campsite 3 customized to be not quite as tall, to shave some weight off, would fit the tent bill. I like the floor size and think it might work for 3 + small stove. I looked at the Seek Outside folding type stoves as well. They are light, but they look really flimsy and not air tight at all. I think it might eat fuel fast, so the tent would go cold in the middle of the night or one would have to get up several times to put more wood on.
Thoughts?
The Trekker Stove appears to be a good size, weight and cost. It appears you would need to supply your own 4" flue. Some of the tent stoves come with flues of various sizes that can be tightly packed with the stove.
Using a wood stove you would need some sort of floor pad such as a piece of wood or carpeting. There are many wood stoves to choose from which usually vary in weight, size, size of flue, type of door, etc.
Some people make their own out of propane tanks, while others construct them from steel plates. The difficult part is usually fabricating a door with hinges, getting the door to easily swing open and close with a tight fit.
People have installed stove jacks in both Springbars and Kodiaks that are larger such as 10 x 10's and 10 x 14'.
Springbar at one time and I think still does install stove jacks by special order. You would need to order a Springbar tent from them and have them install a stove jack (for an additional service fee). Possibly other outfitters selling Kodiaks and Springbars offer tent modification services, installing stove jacks. Their not really that difficult to install, does require some pre-planning and patience.
Using a sewing machine or sewing all you can install your own stove jack
Google search "stove jack" (springbar OR flex-bow OR kodiak) There are also several Youtube videos showing how to install a stove jack.
Southcove,
There is a German expression for what you (and I) are looking for. It is called "Die Eierlegende Wollmilchsau", "the egg-laying wool-milk-pig".
I have been comparing various canvas and poly tents for canoeing. More specifically, the type of canoeing/camping my family does most. We live in northern California where canoeing is possible year round. 90% of our canoe trips are on flat water because most rivers, along the west slopes of the Sierras, are torrents with WW-III and up. Most of our flat water is provided by reservoirs, and most of those are day-trip, or single over nighter size. Virtually zero portage ever. There are a few rivers near by, but again, pretty much no portaging required.
Our favorite canoe places are in the Sierra Nevada at elevations of 4,000 to 6,000 feet. Many of those locations are (IMO) only enjoyable, once the masses have left, between October and March. That is also the time of snow and night time temperatures to below zero. We have not camped in those conditions, mostly due to lack of access to those lakes in the winter (Tahoe being the exception), and due to the lack of a suitable tent. Well...and due to my wife thinking I am insane for even contemplating winter camping. We are very fortunate to have access to some private land along some of the lakes, and mostly crowd-free camping is possible from May through November. However, summer temperatures, even at the elevations mentioned, are often above 100°F. Long story short, I am looking for a 3+ season tent with great ventilation and the possibility to stick a small stove in it if need be.
I believe most poly tents are out for stoves. Yes I know, some people have done it with other than poly outfitter type tents and claim it is fine, but just the idea of the tent catching fire or melting while we are asleep, is just not appealing. So for me, the stove thing excludes poly tents right there. I am also looking for a tent, comfortably large enough for 3 plus the stove and maybe some gear and/or a dog. My initial weight limit was 30lbs. I know that is heavy, but again, no portages and base-camp type setup rather than moving camp every day. Also, I am hopelessly in love with the idea of a canvas tent, so I have adjusted my weight limit to 45lbs, and I may be insane for doing so. As far as price goes, I have pretty much given up on finding the combined attributes I am looking for, for under $1K or even more. The closest I have been able to find are some of the Springbars, or the Split Torrent tent from Ellis Canvas, or even the Baker tent Canotrouge mentioned above. Although I am worried about wind (Sierra lakes are very windy in summer afternoons), and ventilation with only one large opening in the front. The alternative to what we are looking for may have to be two different tent setup, based on season.
Below is a spreadsheet (copy) of the tents I have contemplated so far, sorted by weight.
Any additional tents to look at and any constructive criticism is always welcome!
[TABLE="border: 0, cellspacing: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="width: , colspan: 8"]
Canoe Tent Comparison[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
CANVAS[/TD]
[TD]
Model[/TD]
[TD]
Floor size[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]
Height[/TD]
[TD]
Weight[/TD]
[TD]
Price[/TD]
[TD]
Comments[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ellis Canvas[/TD]
[TD]Prairie Tent[/TD]
[TD]8 x 8[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]73”[/TD]
[TD]19#[/TD]
[TD]$980.00[/TD]
[TD]Protected rear window, outside frame, pyramid style with awning, awning too small to sit under[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Springbar[/TD]
[TD]Compact 2[/TD]
[TD]8.5 x 6[/TD]
[TD]
2[/TD]
[TD]40”[/TD]
[TD]22#[/TD]
[TD]$330.00[/TD]
[TD]2 large windows[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ellis Canvas[/TD]
[TD]Range Tent[/TD]
[TD]8 x 8[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]73”[/TD]
[TD]28#[/TD]
[TD]$899.00[/TD]
[TD]Awning maybe extra, Awning can't be sat under[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kodiak[/TD]
[TD]8.5x6 Flex Bow VX[/TD]
[TD]8.5 x 6[/TD]
[TD]
2[/TD]
[TD]48”[/TD]
[TD]30.5#[/TD]
[TD]$300.00[/TD]
[TD]4 windows all around for good ventilation, taller, only 5# more compared to SB compact when using plastic stakes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ellis Canvas[/TD]
[TD]Split Torrent[/TD]
[TD]6x8[/TD]
[TD]
2[/TD]
[TD]73”[/TD]
[TD]30#[/TD]
[TD]$1,100.00[/TD]
[TD]Makes two 6x4 areas, large enough for 2, no stove[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ellis Canvas[/TD]
[TD]Prairie Tent[/TD]
[TD]10 x 10[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]90”[/TD]
[TD]32#[/TD]
[TD]$1,166.00[/TD]
[TD]Suitable for stove[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Springbar[/TD]
[TD]Outfitter 3[/TD]
[TD]7 x 8[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]67”[/TD]
[TD]34#[/TD]
[TD]$420.00[/TD]
[TD]no awning available, tarp setup will fix, can sleep 3. May shave some weight with AL stakes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ellis Canvas[/TD]
[TD]Split Torrent[/TD]
[TD]8x10[/TD]
[TD]
3[/TD]
[TD]97”[/TD]
[TD]37#[/TD]
[TD]$1,300.00[/TD]
[TD]Makes two 8x5 areas, marginal for 3 plus stove[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ellis Canvas[/TD]
[TD]Split Torrent[/TD]
[TD]10x12[/TD]
[TD]
4[/TD]
[TD]110”[/TD]
[TD]45#[/TD]
[TD]$1,550.00[/TD]
[TD]Makes two 10x6 areas[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Springbar[/TD]
[TD]Campsite 3[/TD]
[TD]7 x 10[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]72”[/TD]
[TD]48#[/TD]
[TD]$530.00[/TD]
[TD]loft, organizer and awning, maybe OK due to under 50#, probably can reduce weight to 45# with plastic or AL stakes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Springbar[/TD]
[TD]Vagabond 4[/TD]
[TD]8 x 10[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]76”[/TD]
[TD]51#[/TD]
[TD]$490.00[/TD]
[TD]most vertical walls, awning available for $75[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kodiak[/TD]
[TD]9x8 flex bow[/TD]
[TD]9 x 8[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]73”[/TD]
[TD]54.5#[/TD]
[TD]$550.00[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Springbar[/TD]
[TD]Traveler 5[/TD]
[TD]10 x 10[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]75”[/TD]
[TD]62#[/TD]
[TD]$690.00[/TD]
[TD]No side windows[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Springbar[/TD]
[TD]Traveler 5[/TD]
[TD]10 x 10[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]75”[/TD]
[TD]62#[/TD]
[TD]$690.00[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kodiak[/TD]
[TD]10x10 Deluxe[/TD]
[TD]10 x 10[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]78”[/TD]
[TD]68”[/TD]
[TD]$570.00[/TD]
[TD]Two doors, two windows[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kodiak[/TD]
[TD]10x10 Basic[/TD]
[TD]10 x 10[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]78”[/TD]
[TD]68#[/TD]
[TD]$499.00[/TD]
[TD]two doors[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kodiak[/TD]
[TD]10 x 10 VX[/TD]
[TD]10 x 10[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]78”[/TD]
[TD]68#[/TD]
[TD]$620.00[/TD]
[TD]Has additional side windows, good for hot weather[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Poly[/TD]
[TD]
Model[/TD]
[TD]
Floor size[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]
Height[/TD]
[TD]
Weight[/TD]
[TD]
Price[/TD]
[TD]
Comments[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Big Agnes[/TD]
[TD]Flying Diamond 4[/TD]
[TD]9' 2” x 7' 5”[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]56”[/TD]
[TD]10#[/TD]
[TD]$350.00[/TD]
[TD]2 doors, not a geodesic, appears smaller inside compared to Alaskan Guide.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]TheTentlab[/TD]
[TD]Moonlight 4[/TD]
[TD]8' x 8'[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]56”[/TD]
[TD]10#[/TD]
[TD]$550.00[/TD]
[TD]that price at pre-order. Regular price $825. Tent has many great features. Probably one of the best tents on market! Not very tall.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]REI[/TD]
[TD]Kingdom 4[/TD]
[TD]8' 4” x 8' 4”[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]75”[/TD]
[TD]19#[/TD]
[TD]$400.00[/TD]
[TD]2 doors, AL poles, may be more wind issues do to design.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Big Agnes[/TD]
[TD]Flying Diamond 6[/TD]
[TD]12.5 x 8'[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]66”[/TD]
[TD]20#[/TD]
[TD]$500.00[/TD]
[TD]2 doors, not a geodesic, appears smaller inside compared to Alaskan Guide. Much lighter though and fewer poles[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cabelas[/TD]
[TD]Alaskan Guide 4[/TD]
[TD]8' 6” hex[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]56”[/TD]
[TD]23#[/TD]
[TD]$350.00[/TD]
[TD]Large vestibule, geodesic shape, AL poles and lots of them like any geodesic tent. This one is not tall enough.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cabelas[/TD]
[TD]Alaskan Guide 6[/TD]
[TD]10' 8” hex[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]75”[/TD]
[TD]32#[/TD]
[TD]$450.00[/TD]
[TD]Large vestibule, geodesic shape, AL poles and lots of them like any geodesic tent[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]