Everyone likes a Bay Bus, whether it’s a converted campervan, a standard Micro Bus, or even a double-cab Pick-Up, but do you know what to look for when buying one? We’ve outlined the common problems to be aware of and how much they can cost to fix. Read our Bay Window buying guide to find out more.
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Sales of Volkswagen’s Split Screen Transporter (so-called because of the split down the middle of its windscreen) had almost reached 1.5 million by the time it was replaced with the more modern-looking Bay Window Type 2 in . These early or 'lowlight' Bays, as they are now called are generally the most collectible model and can be identified by the low front indicators, small rear lights, rounded wrap-around bumpers, and moon-shaped rear vents. These early models ran until , when a one-year-only 'crossover' model bridged the early and late style, mixing low front indicators with larger rear lights. Type 2 models from onwards (commonly referred to as a Late Bay) are often cheaper and in greater abundance. They were available with larger engines, fuel injection, servo-assisted brakes, and crash protection. The bumpers, just like the Beetle, switched to 'Europa style' and became larger for overall safety.
Whilst the Bay Window officially ceased European production in (replaced by the wedge-shaped Vanagon), Brazil produced a combined Split Screen and Bay Window model long after, and more recently, the Bay Window was offered with a 1.4-litre water-cooled petrol engine (production ceased in ), but to avoid confusion, this buying guide is looking at the Bays manufactured between and . Read our Brazilian Kombi buying guide here.
One of the biggest lures of a Bay Window is its use as a campervan. Volkswagen never produced a campervan version but left this to specialist converters such as Danbury, Viking, and Westfalia. Some of these conversions are very desirable if they are in original condition, but ask to see evidence and make sure any parts that are missing or need replacing are available. Take a look here at our Westfalia trim range here to get an idea of prices and availability.
Volkswagen’s line-up of standard Bay Window models includes a panel van, a Micro Bus with seven seats, and a Pick-Up (single- and double-cab). A Micro Bus offers the advantage of seatbelts and seat mounting points installed as standard, whereas a panel van may not have any of these fitted, so if a rock-and-roll bed has been installed for instance, check how it and the rear seatbelts have been secured.
A pop-top (elevating roof) or a high-top (fixed high roof, often made from GRP) helps to open up the interior space, but there are a few issues to be aware of. A pop-top can leak and when camping in high winds, it may need to be closed to avoid damage, which means that any bunk beds in use are out of action. Those leaks can create problems for dampness inside the vehicle, resulting in mold and corrosion – replacement pop top seals are available to help prevent this.
High-tops don’t fit inside most garages and can struggle with car parks that have height restrictions. Plus, their aerodynamics can reduce performance and increase fuel consumption.
Whatever type of roof is fitted on top, the Baywindow's dimensions are usually all the same, with a length of 4.28m, which is shorter than the latest Ford Mondeo, and a width of 1.72m, which is also narrower than most modern family saloons and SUVs. The only exception would be a coach-built special such as a Karmann Gipsy or a Jurgens Autovilla, which has a larger caravan-type body mounted behind the VW cab section.
Good-condition standard Bays demand a high price, whether it’s a Micro Bus with an original seven-seat interior, or a Westfalia-converted campervan with all the standard trim, including orange and green plaid upholstery. However, a modified Bay with a modern interior (compact fridge, sink/hob, electric hook-up, heater), or perhaps one with a Subaru flat-four water-cooled engine conversion and uprated brakes and suspension can be just as desirable, and just as expensive. Our advice is to decide what you want to use a Bay for before looking for the specification.
The bottom six inches of a Bay are generally where rust can be found if it has taken hold of the metalwork, so inspect the sills, floors, chassis rails, outriggers and the front beam. Take a torch and something to lie on to be able to carefully check the underside of the vehicle.
Bay Window repair panels are available for most areas of the underside. However, the rust can often spread further, so if a sill is rusty from the underside, it may also be rotten inside, which could mean the inner and outer sections have to be replaced. Whilst repair panels can cost between £50 and £100, once you’ve included an inner sill, jacking point, welding costs, and paint, the final bill can easily be around £600 or more. Major repairs such as a sill replacement are time-consuming and complicated, especially on the side where there’s a sliding door, so we recommend using a specialist who knows what’s involved.
On the outside of a Bay, check for rust across the bottom edges and where the seams for the panels meet. Feel around the wheel arches for rust and filler repairs – use a magnet to check for filler. Moisture can become trapped underneath the window seals, and a common rust spot is along the base of the windscreen - repair panels are available, but again this can get complicated quickly if the rust has spread.
Open all the doors to check along the bottom edges for corrosion and moisture. Inspect the door steps (known as cab steps, which have several repair panels) for the front doors where moisture can become trapped and corrosion can form.
Some panels are no longer available new, such as a complete door, but a Type 2 door skin and smaller repair panels are, alternatively you may be able to source a used item from a specialist VW dismantler.
All of the Bays we’re focusing on in this buying guide are equipped with a four-cylinder air-cooled engine as standard. The smallest is a 1.6-litre (cc), which can be quickly identified with its high fan housing and a dynamo or alternator in the middle of the engine bay. Larger 1.7-, 1.8- and 2.0-litre air-cooled engines were fitted to later Bays as an option in Europe, but as standard in the USA from , some being equipped with fuel-injection instead of a single carburettor. The Fuel injection can be costly to fix if broken or missing bits, but it is possible to convert back to a single or dual carburettor set-up if required. From an identification point of view, these engines have a lower fan housing and a not-so-prominent alternator.
If the engine can be run and an oil pressure gauge is fitted, ensure it displays around 50-60psi when cold and 20psi when warm at idle. Afterwards, check the underside of the engine for oil leaks from where it’s secured to the gearbox. The rear main oil seal can turn brittle, resulting in oil leaking past it. A replacement costs less than £10 but needs the engine to be removed to fit it.
More oil leaks can emerge from the pushrod tube seals on either side of the underneath of the engine, again a cheap-to-purchase part but could be labour intensive if the heads have to come off. Spring-loaded push rod tubes should save that hassle for you. You'll find them all on our website here.
To check for end-float movement waggle the crankshaft pulley forwards and backwards There should be about 0.15mm of movement, which is difficult to estimate, but if you can see the pulley moving, internal bearing wear is more likely and the engine will need rebuilding.
Rebuild kits are available for the Type 2 engines, and there is also a range of non-exchange all-new engines from SSP with aluminium or magnesium cases.
If an engine has been modified, make sure it has some additional equipment to help preserve it. At the very least, it should have an oil pressure gauge and also an oil temperature gauge. An external oil cooler will help to control the oil’s temperature, but also check all the tinware is present because this is essential to engine cooling.
A four-speed manual gearbox is standard fitment on the Bay, although some are equipped with an automatic. Check the operation of the cable-operated clutch to ensure there’s a sufficient biting point and that the clutch doesn’t slip under acceleration. Make sure the ‘box doesn’t jump out of gear or that worn synchromesh results in crunchy down changes. Budget at least $800 for a professional gearbox rebuild, or treat yourself to one of our Rancho reconditioned transmissions for a little bit more.
Check the gears are straightforward to select, especially reverse. The rod-change mechanism has a long way to travel to the gearbox at the rear, so if gearchanges are difficult, the bushes at the base of the gear stick and at the gearbox can be replaced and may fix the problem. We stock a gearshift bushing kit here which should help.
Drums were fitted all around on the Bay up until late when solid discs with two-pot calipers were fitted at the front. Conversion kits to change front drums to disc brakes are available. A brake servo conversion is also a worthwhile upgrade, which won’t improve braking performance, but will require less effort on the brake pedal to slow down. Parts such as a choice of servos, master cylinders, reservoirs, and hoses are available here.
If a test drive is possible, check the vehicle doesn’t veer to the left or right under braking, which may suggest there are braking or wheel alignment issues, or both. The umbrella-styled handbrake should easily lock the rear brake drums, but if the handbrake is weak and there’s a large amount of travel on the brake pedal before the brakes bite, it may need adjusting.
The front suspension on the Bay comprises a twin beam with upper and lower arms, telescopic dampers and an anti-roll bar, whereas the rear has trailing arms controlled via torsion bars and a couple of telescopic dampers.
Check for corrosion in the casing of the twin front beam. Inside these casings, there are torsion leaf springs that twist with the movement of the upper and lower arms attached to the wheel hubs/uprights. Check the dust covers on the ball joints of the front suspension arms, which can split and allow dirt and water inside, resulting in premature wear.
Visually inspect the telescopic dampers for leaks and perished rubber mounting bushes – replacement OE and custom shock absorbers are available here.
Going up or down is relatively easy with the use of beam adjusters and /or dropped spindles on the front and realigning the spring plates on the rear. Longer shocks will be required for a Swamper style (as below) whereas shorter shock absorbers will probably be needed for a heavy drop to the floor.
A steering box is fitted as standard to the Bay, which has unfortunately become increasingly difficult for specialists to overhaul. The availability of new or reconditioned units is also scarce, with only LHD steering boxes for ‘73-‘79 Bays being available at present. For all other steering boxes, some spares are available here.
Check for excessive play in the steering, which according to the UK MOT test, can be up to 7.5cm of travel at the steering wheel before the road wheels move (based on a 38cm-diameter steering wheel).
Whilst never fitted from the factory, power steering has become a popular upgrade on these vehicles, and it is even possible to convert to a steering rack if your budget allows for it!
All Bays have 12-volt negative earth electrics, with a single battery being installed in the offside rear corner of the engine bay. Find the main fusebox underneath the dashboard and check it for water ingress that can leak through via the windscreen or front vents. Faulty electrics can be caused by corroded fuses and/or relays and poor earth connections.
If a leisure battery is fitted, check it is securely mounted and the wiring to any equipment is correctly fused, along with a split-charge system that should only operate when the engine is running. If a mains hook-up is installed, check it has some means of cutting off via a trip switch or fuse. If you are in doubt about any of the electrics, ask for a second opinion from an auto electrician.
There’s very little change from $ for an abandoned (but salvageable) restoration project in pieces. Most road-legal Bays start at around $10,000 for something that promises to be reliable but may need some cosmetic work, such as a respray or a new interior. Realistically, expect to spend up to $20,000 for one that’s ready for the road, but a lot more if you want a recent restoration or something highly modified.
Everyone should own a campervan at some point in their life, and one of the most popular has got to be the VW Bay Window model. Unfortunately, it’s now an expensive investment to join the fraternity, so do your homework and don’t rush into buying the first one you see.
You may find our 'how to choose a VW Campervan' blog of interest if you are still undecided on whether a classic or modern campervan is for you.
Rob
A question we get asked all the time is what's the best used bus to turn into a skoolie conversion? There are so many things to consider when buying a used school bus, or any used vehicle for that matter, especially when you want to convert it into your new off-grid tiny home on wheels. This guide will give you a step by step checklist on what to look for, who can help you, and what mistakes you could make, that can cost you THOUSANDS of dollars, if you don’t know the basics before you take the big step into building your own school bus conversion.
After converting over many different skoolies for ourselves and clients, we've learned a thing or three along the way and as our platform has grown, so has the occurrence of questions like:
If there’s one thing we can warn you about when you’re buying a retired school bus it’s this:
Take your time and do the research, before you buy, so you don’t make any costly financial mistakes like buying a rusty bus with mechanical issues that turns into a money pit before you even start your conversion.
With that being said, welcome to the EXCITING start of your journey! You’re doing the right thing, research, research, research.
Below, we’ll provide you with the information necessary to make an educated decision about what to look for while finding what school bus you should buy for your own conversion.
You can also look at our free pre-purchase skoolie inspection checklist at the bottom!
As mentioned, reading the information below can potentially save you thousands of dollars in ‘hidden’ costs by helping you buy the right bus the first time around.
Climb aboard and let’s get this show on the road!
Use the most DIY friendly layout design software, Vanspace 3D. It's super easy to build and design your own skoolie and van conversion layouts with an intuitive drag and drop software.
A back story on how we got here and why we're qualified to give you this advice:
Judy was the first bus we ever owned, converted, and [Steven] lived in. She was a 72 passenger Blue Bird International bus with a stick shift, hydraulic brakes and a long history. I can’t even remember the engine and transmission that were in the bus. In the beginning, this whole research thing didn’t even seem to cross our minds to compare all of the possible details we know now… We just jumped right in and did the due diligence we normally would when buying a used vehicle. We lucked out as Judy didn’t seem to need anything but a little TLC! That skoolies still on the road with a new family!
If you haven’t heard the story of how Paved To Pines came to be, in we traded a motorbike for this old bluebird school bus and ended up building Judy the skoolie over the course of 12 months. Steven lived the bus life for about a year until we moved cities and started the company. Now we're a full-scale van and school bus conversion company building over 10 customized conversions every year with our awesome team!
In saying that, and I don’t say this lightly, buying your school bus is the biggest step of your skoolie conversion journey! BUT this doesn’t have to be a bad or scary thing. We’re here to help you, in fact, you’ll be confident in searching for a bus and ready for adventure after reading this article.
Or If the thought of finding your bus is overwhelming, let alone converting it yourself, Paved To Pines is a full-scale conversion shop - we will help find the bus with you as well as find transportation to our shop, design your layout, build your entire skoolie, and ship it back to you! Contact us to get started.
Our first skoolie, Judy
This is a tricky road to go down. Everyone has their own opinions, experience, and ideas. This is the experience, research and information we’ve found over the years that Paved To Pines has been doing for our custom school bus conversions.
There are quite a few differences in the types of buses you can convert. Some of the differences are obvious when you look at the bus and some are more subtle that you won’t know about unless you’re told about them or know from experience. The biggest differences are going to be apparent when building different designs for your layout.
As seen below, the two main choices are a flat nose and a dog-nose bus.
Short buses only come in the conventional body style as they are generally truck cutoffs with a fibreglass addition. We won’t be covering anything on short buses in this blog but if you’d like us to write some more information on them, let us know in the comments.
Flat noses, or Transit style buses, only come in larger size buses.
Below, you’ll notice a few key things in green that are crucial for consideration while building your skoolie layout. The wheel wells are a big hindrance and a burden to take into consideration in the front & back of your bus.
The front-wheel wells are non-existent in a conventional skoolie conversion but you have less overall room for your conversion.
In the flat note buses, The front wheel wells are smack dab in your way but you do have an additional 4-5 feet of usable space in your skoolie.
Image credit: Buslandia
In our conversions, we usually put a couch over the passenger side wheel well and an entertainment area or additional seating above the driver side wheel well in most buses which is a great way to use space over the wheel wells. Plus, if you do this in a conventional bus, having no wheel wells will allow for even more storage space under the couches in the front.
Let’s break this down a bit more because there is more to this than just layouts and looks. Even though your skoolie layout is probably the most important part of your conversion.
The classic school bus skoolie. If you want people to know it’s a school bus camper or just like this classic school bus conversion look, it’s an obvious choice. I would say this is my personal least favourite from a conversion standpoint for two main reasons. Less conversion space & I like the look of the flat-nose way more as it looks much more like a Class A RV/motorhome.Pros:
Cons:
There are a few different options when it comes to flat nose school buses. Some buses may have the engine in the front (FE) and some might have it in the rear (RE). When the engine is in the back of the bus, it’s called a pusher. These rear engine school buses generally have a bigger engine in them with more power and they’re only found in buses that are 35-40 feet long.
Both flat-nose style buses offer pros and cons for a skoolie conversion that not only affect your layout but drivability and other things like engine noise and heat while driving etc.
The flat nose front engine school bus is pretty much a mix of the pusher and the conventional bus having features from each. The biggest difference is that it has more usable floor plan space than a conventional bus.
Pros:
Cons:
We saved the best bus, in our opinion, for last.
Diesel pusher school buses have become a very popular chassis to build a skoolie on for a few reasons.
Sometimes you can find these buses with a bigger engine (8.3L Cummins), they’re quieter, and you can build your bed around the engine bay at the back while still having some nice storage space while keeping the front of the bus wide open with no engine bay in the way.
Plus, a lot of these bus styles have through-bay underbelly compartments which is a beautiful thing for school bus conversions as it can house so much storage or systems. Oftentimes, we run a heat duct down into this underbelly area and keep some of our water systems and electrical systems there to open up space inside the bus and keep the gray tank in a more insulated area for 4-season use.
Pros:
Cons:
We like the transit-style bus for a few reasons: They have a higher GVWR (gross vehicle weight restriction), they offer excellent visibility, and they seem to be a favourite among most drivers who have driven these types of buses.
Conventional style buses, on the other hand, are cheaper (which is sometimes good), they are pretty easy to work on, more plentiful in most areas, and they seem to be pretty popular, even though a lot of districts are going with transit-styles. You could probably get either type of bus at a good price depending on the make, model, and model year.
You might be asking yourself: ‘Can I just buy an older motorhome and renovate that instead of a school bus conversion?’
You can do anything you want! But it’s going to cost a lot more money to buy a motorhome that you’re just going to gut completely.
A school bus is a much more affordable base cost and you’re not paying for a bunch of crap you’re just gonna take out. I mean I guess you’re still sorta doing that in a school bus with the seats and whatnot. But you will pay less for a good bus than a good motorhome.
A school bus is also much much safer on the road. Seeing as they’re used to transport kids daily, they’re built to keep people safe. With the roll cage and steel structure all around, it’s not even comparable to the lightweight material they’re making traditional RVs out of.
One major positive about renovating an RV, instead of a school bus, is the slides it may have for additional space. Adding slides to a skoolie conversion can be done but takes a ton of skill and fabrication. So if you’re going to DIY the build, you better have mad skills. If you’re paying a builder to convert your skoolie, you better have some mad stacks. (Please don’t hate that I said mad stacks. I didn’t like it either but it just felt right). But really, adding slide-outs to a skoolie is extremely expensive/labour-intensive.
Use the most DIY friendly layout design software, Vanspace 3D. It's super easy to build and design your own skoolie and van conversion layouts with an intuitive drag and drop software.
There are, what seems like, unlimited bus options with different engines, transitions, lengths and body styles. Below, I cover the main ones talked about in the forums and ones we've converted ourselves.
At the end of the day, picking the best size of school bus to convert is personal. On top of that, it's one of the best ways to travel in a safe way!
Below, we will give you a list of questions to ask yourself to help decide on the perfect size of bus for your own needs.
How the heck can you tell the difference?
Think about it this way in total length bumper to bumper:
20-25 feet = short bus (find pics or graphics)
25-35 feet = mid-size
35-40 feet = full length
A good rule of thumb for what the interior, convertible/useable space is:
Bumper to bumper length minus 5 feet = interior space behind the drivers seat to the rear wall.
So a 40 foot bumper to bumper bus would have roughly 35 feet in length of convertible living space for you to work with.
Not exact but it gives a general idea to see if you’re in the ballpark. Of course, it's always a good idea to take a tape measure and get physical measurements of any bus you're looking to buy. But if you wanted to start playing with layouts prior, this is a good rule of thumb.
Something to keep in mind is - The longer your bus, the fewer places you can get it serviced mechanically.
Basically, if your skoolie is longer than 25 feet it's most likely not going to fit in a traditional mechanics garage so you’ll need a larger diesel shop to work on it. This isn’t a problem and shouldn’t scare you, though, as there are great diesel and truck shops in most cities.
We will talk more about engines and transmissions as well as maintenance later in this article.
Which leads us to this series of considerations.
It's been mentioned a few times already in this blog but we seriously recommend Vanspace 3D for all DIY folks to build their layout. Most people underestimate the intangible cost of not designing and preparing your layout before you start your build. It can cost you thousands in time and money.
Use the most DIY friendly layout design software, Vanspace 3D. It's super easy to build and design your own skoolie and van conversion layouts with an intuitive drag and drop software.
Your layout is also going to depend on your lifestyle. What you do on a day to day basis can drastically change what’s required for your available space and layout.
When you’re planning your skoolie layout, you need to make sure everything can be multi-functional.
Our first bus, Judy, was a 38 foot Bluebird. As Steven was living in it full-time, the additional space felt necessary to create a nice flow of functional living space. It’s important to think about what you NEED to feel comfortable when living this lifestyle.
Thinking critically about what you need will help you develop your layout, which I‘ll probably write another blog on if this would help you. Let me know in the comments!
Do you need all, or just some, of these things to live your daily life happily and exactly the way you want?
With working from home becoming a new norm and a goal for most people living the skoolie life, you'll most likely need a place to sit down to eat, work, and relax.
Two of our favourite things to add in custom builds are multi-functional couches and dinettes.
These two staple pieces can work as a workspace, storage and an additional sleeping spot.
If you're doing a DIY conversion, here's something to think about. When you build your layout and furniture always design it so things have multiple purposes. It's a crucial component to working with spaces like these tiny homes.
Want more information on Bus chassis? Feel free to contact us.
With limited space, you need to be utilizing upper and lower storage as well as walls to hold things like knives or spices in your skoolie kitchen.
Things like this will help you fit more things in less space and potentially reduce the need of your school buses size if you’d like.
See more of Buster
Maybe you don’t need to take up space with a shower in your own bus. This would also mean you potentially don’t need to worry about additional tanks or plumbing runs, having additional plumbing means more things to insulate and heat.
If you don't need it, this is something that would save you space and money.
Do you have any pets with you and are they comfortable with a smaller space or are the two of you going to need a little extra room to run?
The same goes for partners! Do you both work from home? Are you going to need separate workspaces so you’re not side-by-side 24 hours a day?
How many additional seating and sleeping spaces do you require? Are you a solo traveller? Do you have kids? Are you with a partner and you need a co-pilot seat? That’s additional space needed where you need a bigger bus or to remove something or change your layout.
See more of Big Betty
If you're looking to keep your skoolie as small as possible, switch out the TV for an iPad or just use your laptop so you don’t need an entire entertainment system. Buy a kindle instead of getting an entire bookshelf. Things of that nature.
But if you're going with a bigger bus conversion, you can fit in an entertainment area set up for hosting any kind of rainy day.
See more of the Doghouse
Is park-ability important? Or, are you very cautious about gas mileage?
Where you’ll be staying, parking, or if you’ll be driving much more than you’ll be parked are all things you’ll need to consider when choosing your skoolie size.
It goes without saying that the smaller the bus the easier you’ll be able to maneuver in tight spaces and find parking spots. Regardless of your skoolie size, you’ll get comfortable enough driving it around everywhere you need to go.
For the first few days, you might look like this groovy fella:
If you’re living around a major city that you need to commute into, find parking often, OR if your skoolie isn’t your permanent dwelling and you’ll need a storage spot for your bus, a shorter bus would probably benefit you more.
On the other hand, if you’re living in your skoolie in a more permanent location, you can find an affordable commuter car so you:
This is something that is often forgotten when thinking about layouts and there's a few ways to think about it.
This is important because everything takes up a lot of valuable space on your roof, leaving less space for other things. This can dictate what size of bus you'll need or where you place things within your build layout.
As you can imagine, each of these things will affect the placement of another. Just another thing to think about while planning your layout and design when thinking about bus size.
Use the most DIY friendly layout design software, Vanspace 3D. It's super easy to build and design your own skoolie and van conversion layouts with an intuitive drag and drop software.
This is a HUGE question and point of concern for a lot of people starting out. To be blunt, you’re not buying a school bus for their gas mileage. Like any large RV, they are gonna drink diesel. These units are sometimes over 30,000 lbs and 40 feet long. Take into account that some bus lifers are raising their roof increasing drag or adding on rooftop decks and other things of that nature.
Who said some math from school wouldn't come in handy?
If you are just looking to calculate your school buses fuel economy, we have a little help from the manufacturer.
Here’s an example of how to calculate the cost of your skoolies fuel economy from Thomas:
Step 1 - Determine your fuel economy:
For example:
510 miles driven / 60 gallons used = 8.5 miles per gallon fuel economy.
Step 2 - Calculate total fuel costs.
Thomas Built Buses Saf-T-Liner C2 Example
*national average in the USA on 3/6/19
Thats a lot of driving!
So how many MPG is YOUR skoolie going to get? This is a tough question to give an exact answer to because there isn’t one. It depends on many things like:
On average, your school bus conversion will likely get anywhere from 7-10 MPG if it’s a diesel engine and you’re talking highway mileage.
If you have a short to mid-size school bus and you re-gear the bus to optimize for highway speeds/reduce the RPMs, you can see 10+ MPG (generally 10-12 is what we’ve seen and heard from our research).
Remember, you’re in a big RV, your gas mileage isn’t your main concern here. Even with a traditional 30-40 foot traditional motorhome, your fuel milage is still limited. The bonus about building a Skoolie is the added safety, customizability, and of course, affordability in comparison to traditional RVs.
Although fuel mileage shouldn't be your main concern, it still is something to think about.
Here are a few ways to get better fuel economy in your school bus conversion:
“As you can see, even though clean-diesel costs more than gasoline per gallon, it outperforms other fuel types in operating range and overall costs, based on how efficient the fuel is.”
The bigger engines, like the new Detroit charter engines, are even more efficient on fuel.
There’s a multitude of factors that come into play with fuel economy and these are just some of them. If you have more that we’ve missed, let us know in the comments!
As you can see, the bigger the skoolie the more room for activities but theres pros and cons to going bigger or smaller with your conversion.
You should see where I’m going with this. I do too, I might have to write an entire blog about layouts. Would this benefit you? Let me know in the comments below!
Whether you’re looking around the skoolie forums doing research or on a marketplace looking for used buses for sale, you’re going to see several different engine and transmission options.
There are lots of opinions out there from people who’ve had good and bad experiences with every brand so we’re trying to keep this information as objective as possible.
The most common brand of skoolie engines you’re going to see are:
There are a few different types of smaller engines that are suitably in smaller short buses. There's quite a few different options for engines and transmissions in school buses in general so I will only be covering the main ones we see. BUT if this is something that would help you and you feel I should write, let me know in the comments below!
The most common transmission you’re going to see is an Alison automatic transmission.
Sources:Dieselhub (DT466),Cumminshub (5.9L),
Note: B10 is the average life expectancy of an engine measured in miles where 10% of the produced engines failed and needed a major overhaul. Consequently, B50 is the average miles where 50% of the engines failed. -capital reman exchange
Note: In newer buses, you’ll no longer see DT466 engines. In , the name was retired and renamed the Maxxforce DT.
The 5.9L Cummins was retired in in favour of the emission friendly 6.7L Cummins
As seen in the Louvre 'Horsepower' - If this isn’t art, I don’t know what is.
The International DT466 is used in many different applications, not just school buses, and has been manufactured for over 25 years. Its nickname, ‘The Legend’, was coined by users in the field before Navistar themselves started marketing it as such, this engine definitely earned itself a reputation. When the 300 & 400 series DT466 engines were introduced it was ‘the right engine and the right time’ in terms of technology and a solid base to grow on for years to come. That’s why this engine is still very popular and reputable today while still being widely used.
The Cummins 5.9L is one of the most common diesel engines on the market as well. One major thing you’ll want to keep an eye out for is the #53 Block engines as they have a tendency to crack which will cause you to have an expensive repair. With many available mechanics, aftermarket replacements and parts available, it’s an engine that you can have for a long time if you maintain it properly. School buses after will have the newer, environmentally friendlier option, 6.7L Cummins. You can see the specs on the 6.7L Cumminshere as it does have some changes like higher HP and Torque, for example.
Although the smaller CAT engines do have a less positive sentiment from buyers, the C7 & engine configurations are the same in most aspects. The C7 shares the same fuel system as the new DT466’s coined the ‘HEUI injector’. Unlike the DT466, the CAT C7 didn’t quite live up to the hype it was initially touted with when it was prematurely named the ‘golden child’. CAT stopped manufacturing the C7 in so as we move along in the years to come, parts might become harder to find. In saying this, we’ve converted and heard of plenty of skoolies with CAT engines that last a long time if properly maintained.
According to Diesel Hub, an engine with a wet cylinder sleeve design, like the DT466, allows for less downtime and reduced repair costs. This might mean nothing to you, as it does to me (I’m absolutely not a mechanic) but that sounds pretty spicy. This means that an engine overhaul can be done without removing the engine from the chassis. SOUNDS WAY CHEAPER! I like it.
All of these engines are well respected and highly used within the skoolie community. They function well when properly maintained and can be fixed and most reputable heavy-duty mechanic locations.
Like anything, they all have their pros and cons and good stories with their bad stories. At the end of the day, do your own due diligence and ensure you’re getting an inspection done and taking your skoolie for a test drive before purchasing anything. With proper due diligence and proper maintenance, your skoolie is going to have the best chance at staying on the road healthy for as long as possible!
Detroit Engine(Coach Bus Conversions)
The Detroit Diesel 60 series engines are nicknamed the Million Mile Engines simply because their B50 rating (the one we talked about earlier) where 50% of the engines need an overhaul at this number, is 1,000,000. Another great thing about these engines is that they’re tuned and perfected already for highway and long-distance travel.
Some additional ‘pros’ with converting a charter bus into your ‘ skoolie, (would it still be called a skoolie? Charty? Charcuterie?), is that the ceilings are not rounded. This means that you can pretty much stand throughout the entire width of the bus if you’re under ~6’2.
Another awesome thing about these Charter conversions is the extraordinary amount of cargo space and room for systems there is on the chassis. These buses have so much room in the underbelly bays you could probably have another mini little man cave underneath one of them. Honestly, Frodo might be in there right now hitching a ride back to the shire.
Additionally, a lot of these coach buses are build out of materials that don’t rust. Some of the older MCI buses are stainless steel/aluminum and some of the Prevost buses are fibreglass. No rust issues!
Some cons that we’ve found out about, from our local heavy-duty mechanics, is that some places (probably in smaller cities) are no longer working on some of these bigger engines. It doesn’t mean they can’t fix them or take a look at them. But in our case, one of our local shops doesn’t have their diagnostic code readers for the Detroit engines anymore as it’s not a regular service request for their shop.
Additionally, you’re going to need a different license altogether vs just getting your air brakes endorsement for a traditional skoolie. These big bad rigs have dual axles and you’ll need to take another test to legally drive these things. Although we don’t really see this as being a deterrent as long as you feel comfortable driving a 45-foot long vehicle, the test is a non-issue.
A used bus can cost between $2,500 and $7,500 USD. Depending on the condition and spec of the bus they can be much more as a new bus can START at $50,000.
We recommend that our clients stick to buses that are starting at the $7,500 area as they have a better foundation to start an expensive bus conversion on. Most of our clients are living in their conversions full-time; their bus needs to last a very long time.
Some used buses, if they’re in great shape and have awesome specs can easily cross that $20,000-$25,000 range.
It comes down to a few personal decisions, like most things in this guide have. If you don’t mind getting your hands dirty, have no timeline, and are looking to do all of the labour yourself, a cheap $2,500 bus could turn into a nice new rig once all the cobwebs are figured out. Sometimes cheaper buses like this have a tonne of rust or mechanical issues, though.
If your plans are to put a lot of time, love, money, and effort into this bus to convert it into a bus suited for full-time living then it is most likely worth spending a little extra money on the chassis to have one that’s going to last a lot longer.
As always, you (usually) get what you pay for.
So spending a little extra on your foundation could save you a lot of headaches.
For example, we had this really nice new-looking bus come in but there was rust eating the underbelly bay alive. If you just touched it, the rust was so cancerous, the metal would crumble to the floor. We had to go under the bus, grind/removed the old 'metal' and fabricate a new frame. All in all, we got there before the rust became so bad it started moving to other areas. But it goes to show that even nice looking buses can have bad areas!
10 places to buy a cheap school bus for skoolie conversions:
Contrary to popular posts and other people in the industry's recommendations, DO NOT buy a bus from an auction. You literally don’t know what you’re buying. Most of the time at an auction, you don’t get to take a peek at the bus you're bidding on. So you don't get to look underneath for rust, take it for a test drive, or do any of the other things we are going to tell you to check.
So… PLEASE save yourself the time, headache, and money and look for buses that aren’t being sold to the highest bidding sucker. You might be fine, but you also might buy a complete lemon and there's nothing you can do about it.
I’m not saying you won’t or can’t have issues with a private sale, you can have issues with brand new vehicles, but you have a better chance for success if you find a bus that isn’t at an auction. They’re usually sent to auctions because they can't sell anywhere else.
With the list of sites and places we’ve mentioned above, you’re more than capable of finding a good bus from somewhere that you can check out, inspect, and test drive prior to making this important decision.
If you are looking for a school bus conversion company to build your rig, you’re in the right place. Contact us as we can help procure a vehicle for you once a deposit is made if you do choose that you'll be converting with Paved To Pines!
You’re right, a big question of living in a school bus conversion full-time is ‘how much do these things cost to maintain?' Well, that answer is a little unclear and differs from vehicle to vehicle. Just like the cars you’ve owned, some older cars can go years without any issues and on the other hand, you could buy a new vehicle and it’s nothing but trouble. Some are just lemons.
First, when you’re going to buy or look at a bus, look online for that particular buses operation manual. You know, like the one you get with your car that tells you what all the maintenance times are and what the lights blinking at you mean.
Finding the school bus manual is a great way to stay on top of your skoolies mechanical maintenance and make sure that the bus is operating as it should.
There are some things you’ll find in your bus operating manual you might not even think about like horsepower, torque, RPM parameters, how often you should be changing your oil and air filter and more.
Routine School Bus Maintenance:
For an exhaustive skoolie maintenance list, gohere!
Some less common, annual skoolie maintenance, you’ll want to check on:
We painted this bus roof with Henrys Rubber Paint - you roll it on so it's not the easiest application as it's thicker than molasses, but it creates a rubber seal to prevent leaks and help with climate control! We will be writing another blog on how to paint a school bus soon enough.
150,000-200,000km is best. The lower the better, obviously. These big bad school bus diesel engines can last a very very long time if properly maintained. It goes without saying that maintenance(link to maintenance) is going to happen, just like any vehicle, but if you routinely take care of it your bus will last a long time.
If you can obtain the maintenance records from the place you’re buying your bus from, that’s even better. Most, if not all, school districts, activity buses, mining buses, coaches etc all require the work done to be logged meaning two things.
It’s like a 23 & me DNA test for your bus.
This goes without saying. Rust is like cancer to any metal surface.
Not all rust is the same, though.
Surface rust can be treated with a grinder and some protection coating like rustoleum, rust check, or things of that nature before it gets sealed back up/painted. If you are having to treat surface rust on the floor of your bus, that’s common. These units are old and not sealed very well so moisture gets in under the floorboards. Treat any surface rust before you do anything else.
If you’re seeing major pitted rust in the undercarriage or side skirts, etc, it’s best to just move on and find another bus. There’s plenty out there.
While you’re underneath the chassis, inspecting the skoolie, check the U-joints and the axles. Really get under the bus and take a good look at everything prior to moving forward.
This is such a crucial part of buying your school bus, EVEN if it’s a screaming deal, you’re the only one who’s going to be screaming after you keep finding more and more rust and sinking more and more time and money into the conversion before you even get on the road.
Trust me, move on.
Or if you wanna form a hunchback, the choice is yours.
Newer buses have a higher standing height which is around 6’5” down the middle. Some of the older buses, though, only have roughly 5’5” in height down the middle. SO if you’re 5’3” and up you’re not gonna be able to stand in a shorter height bus. You need to take into account the subfloor (we use ¾), your studs/insulation (1.5 inches) and then your roof thickness which can be ¾ if you’re using tongue and groove.
SO unless you’re doing a roof raise make sure you opt for the tall roof school bus for your skoolie conversion. Even then it might be uncomfortable in there to start with, make sure you’re getting a high roof bus.
Buses are being sent to auctions, mostly, because they can’t sell anywhere else. PLUS you’re buying something you can’t look at, drive, inspect, or ask questions about beforehand. All around a terrible idea and I haven’t heard of anyone buying a bus at an auction that worked out. So if it has for you, please comment below and tell us your story!
Even if you have no idea what you’re looking at, take a look at the engine bay and make sure there's no massive oil or antifreeze leaks or anything else that looks suspicious.
During your skoolie test drive, don’t be blasting any ACDC or your favourite tune from beebs. Listen to the sounds the bus is making. Do you hear any ticks or grinding while shifting gears?
Don’t just ‘kick the tires’ as the old adage goes and think you can tell by the sound if the tires have a lot of life left. Check the walls of the tires for cracks or wear and tear. Make sure there's no bulges or patch jobs around the edges of the tire.
This is a rule for ANY vehicle, not just your skoolie. Treat it like a home inspection, don’t be silly - ask too many questions. This rule ESPECIALLY rings true if you can’t physically see the bus. But you should always try and see it for a walk around and test drive.
This is a bare minimum and a must before buying anything. Find a reputable heavy-duty mechanic in the area and get the owner to drive the bus there for the appointment. If he is refusing to allow you to purchase pending it passes, he's most likely hiding something.
This, like the service report, is going to tell you a lot about the current condition of your skoolie and it could save you a LOT of headaches and extra cash down the road. Even coming down to the remainder of the tires life. New tires for a school bus aren’t cheap. Although, you could use it as a bargaining chip if the rest of the bus is in great condition.
The inspection isn’t going to catch absolutely everything, however, as the mechanics don’t drive the bus or check every single seal and hose etc. But they get the main components down, the lights, etc and it will save you a big headache.
I know this might sound silly but it never hurts to be reminded. Ask questions about the vehicle like:
Leave a comment below! Tell us how your journey of building your DIY skoolie is going. Or, if you think we're missing crucial information about buying a used school bus, let us know below.
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